Elvanse in combination with...what?

Hi everyone,

Question regarding experiences with Elvanse (Lisdexamphetamin) in combination with…

Anyone who uses max dosis of Elvanse, but still has the need for combining with other medication to cover a whole day? And any experiences with a recommended combi?

  • I take 60-70 mg Elvanse (longlasting) - and it works amazingly, is life-changing and with absolutely no side effects.
  • I usually burn medicine quickly (like some people do) and for Elvanse the effect stops working after about 6-7 hours.
  • My problem?: I need to be covered all day, so I can take care of my kids from morning 7.00 am to 8.00 pm)
  • (I used Methylphenidate variants before and I had so many unacceptable side-effects: hopelessness, fatigue, shaking, irritability, loss of focus, jointpains, feeling of having fever - so, unfortunately, any methyphenidate variation is not possible for me)
  • My previous doctor would not use combi-treatments (which is thinking from the 90’ies) so I am planning to go to my sister’s doctor who is more updated in his research…
  • My sister already told me that her doctor suggests a combination of Elvanse (long) + Attentin (short) or the combi of Elvanse + Atomoxitin (small dosis as a 24 hour cover underneath)
  • I have no history of any drug/substanse abuse, ever, at all, not even being extremely drunk on alcohol (never liked it…I need my brain :wink:

The thought of being covered all day…oh, I so whish it is possible for me - would be life-changing for me.

Tanks for any helpful thoughts…

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I’ve also heard about very often and I’m sorry, that your Doc would not go with you.

But, what about caffeine :tea: I’ve tested for me, in the afternoon and it works. No sleeping problems at night :sleeping: I think, it’s individual, but maybe also a way for you, for a test?

Or a nearby date, with your sis’s doc @Lady_North, to get a partner for Elvanse :four_leaf_clover:

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Hi,

you might have a look here:

and here (different part of same site):

and here:

p.s.: Elvanse = Vyvanse in US

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Hi there :slight_smile:

I have the same “Problem” like you (including side effects with Methylphenidate).

My doctor gave me more then one dose of Vyvanse (Elvanse) per day to cover the whole day (I take completely 60mg but in smaller dose during the day. Otherwise I have no chance to cover the day.)

Maybe you can think about it and ask your doctor about his thoughts?

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Sounds like a good doctor to me :slight_smile:

Worst case you may want to ask the doctor about TDM (therapeutic drug monitoring) to measure the concentration levels of DEX (Dexamphetamine) in the bloodstream after time X, if you feel like it is not lasting long enough.

Elvanse/Vyvanse + Attentin (minimal dose - just enough to boost the plasma concentration level to stay in the therapeutic range) would be a working combo anyway.


Stimulants + non-stimulants work as well.
According to Russel Barkley, such a combination should (ideally) result in lower doses of both medications (which would be beneficial) and at the same time cover a wider range across the adhd symptom complex.


I‘m sure there are longer and more detailed videos out there by now, but I find it quite helpful :slight_smile:

https://youtu.be/LnS0PfNyj4U?si=yNzBa_Ohn6UrU4Q1

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Thanks for the advice Silberlocke.
Caffeine was what I was living on before ADHD-meds :slight_smile: But for me the combi of stimulants and caffeine is not good - super uncomfortable side effects and bad sleep. But I know it works for some people :wink:

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Thank you for the response SneedleDeeDoo.
I have not heard of TDM being used in DK at all—not that I know of anyway. I’m hoping to try the Elvanse + Atomoxitine combi—it sounds interesting and promising.
…now I just have to wait for a new appointment again :face_with_spiral_eyes: since my previous doctor did not use “combi”.

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…Yes, I can also split the dosis.
Actually, my doctor initially prescribed that I take (due to my fast burning of the meds):

  • 60 + 20 mg
  • or 40 +40 mg

But 40+40 gives me too little in either end of the day and too much in the overlap.
Somehow 60 mg + 20 mg later feels better. No idea why. But I don’t really feel the 20 mg, I guess.

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Interesting.
Thanks for the links!

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Elvanse ist not so present. And 20mg is (in my case) pretty subtle.

But when you take a higher dose before not wondering that you think that you don’t feel the 20mg.

But this subtle feeling is how it works.

More / pushing is too much.

I take my 60mg in 3 x 20mg during the day.

And also have my reminder for them.
(Take it this way nearly 2 years and it works great (cause more is too much, less is not enough):slightly_smiling_face:)

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[Disclaimer, I have no professional credentials. Just got fed up and desperate and spent a few hundred hours researching various topics online. And I have a very high stimulant tolerance. I also understand this was originally posted 6 months ago. Still relevant information]

Before tacking on more meds I would first check to see if the brand you get has been the same all along. In the U.S. most generics of amphetamine based meds (active ingredient in Vyvanse, Elvanse, Adderall, Dexedrine, etc.) hardly work compared to the good generic brands. Due to excipients (inactive ingredients) affect on crossing the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB). I do not know if the effective brands contain an adjuvant (excipient that enhances the API (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient)) or if the low effective brands inhibit the API from crossing the BBB. Amphetamine is particularly sensitive to this effect.
Personal example from generic Adderall IR, Aurobindo (aka aurolife or sometimes this specific product is sold under the brand Northstar) at 140mg was less effective and did not last as long as 40mg of a good brand like Corepharma (discontinued), Teva, or Sandoz. Due to issues crossing the BBB. Granted, peripheral side effects did respond to the high dose which sucked.

[I wish any therapist from 2007 till 2024 had any clue about this. Would have prevented my extreme tolerance and allowed me to get off Adderall. I am sensitive to the long term side effects]

Memantine or Strattera are your best combination options.
Everyone forgot that amphetamine, one of the primary effects is as an AMPA and NMDA/glutamate agonist. Which may be even more of an effect than direct dopamine or norepinephrine effects.
Agonist means it triggers the receptor, antagonist is a blocker.

AMPA induces fast synaptic transmission
NMDA continues effect of AMPA and releases glutamate.
Glutamate is the body’s primary stimulating and modulating neurotransmitter. Simply put, it enhances synaptic transmission of dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE). I believe by reducing the threshold of stimulation required to propagate a synaptic transmission. So you need less NE and DA to elicit an effect.

Problem is, NMDA/glutamate pathways are highly sensitive to overstimulation (excitotoxicity) and amphetamine happens to be really good at it.
NMDA overstimulation allows excessive flux of ions which cause dysregulation and damage from oxidative stress. Excessive glutamate is released. Excessive glutamate triggers the extrasynaptic NMDA receptor, which triggers the apoptosis (automated cell death) cascade. i.e, can kill brain cells with extrasynaptic (outside the synapse) NMDA receptors. And many researchers believe that NMDA/glutamate excitotoxicity is the primary route to long term amphetamine tolerance.

Solution, NMDA antagonism (blockers) to protect and allow time to heal pathways. Which reduces tolerance. Or, prevents tolerance if starting early.
So, memantine (an Alzheimer’s drug) is specifically made to block overexcitement of the NMDA receptor while allowing it to function at normal levels. Which regulates glutamate levels too. So, amphetamine based meds can still have their NMDA/glutamate agonism, but it is limited to non-excitotoxic levels.

Which requires a therapist who practices “evidence based” medicine. Neurologists that treat ADHD are more likely to understand this as psychiatry is more of a behavioral based discipline and pharmacology/neurology is a small part of their overall training and discipline. Plus you have to find proof which can be hard since much of the research is in the context of “abuse” and “addiction” and less on prescribed levels of amphetamines that mention it can happen at prescribed levels.
Wish I bookmarked everything which would make this post a whole lot easier to verify contents.
Strattera has a secondary dose dependent effect as a noncompetitive NMDA antagonist. (Should be easy to find that online.) It is also easier to convince a therapist as an add on as it is technically a non-stimulant. The boost to NE helps, but it also takes time to build therapeutic effect. But, the NMDA antagonism does not have to build up, it happens at each dose you take. Overtime you will need to reduce your amphetamine meds dose.

Personal experience.:
Prescribed 60mg Adderall IR which was no longer strong enough. Had taken 80mg a few times for job interviews which was a lot better but not always fully effective, just better. Started Strattera (don’t recall every dose, but last time I was on 60mg of Strattera which worked fine. Probably work for most people at lower dose. Do not know best dose for people) In less than a year I had dropped my Adderall dose to 40mg which was fully effective, and persisted when I stopped taking Strattera. Until I again built up tolerance. Did this 3 times in about 11 years. 3rd time I stayed on past 1 year and at 15 months, 40mg was too strong. Should have reduced that dose but instead stopped taking strattera. No idea where it would bottom out. But going from close but not fully effective 80mg Adderall to a too strong 40mg is more than a 50% reduction in tolerance. And shows the NMDA/glutamate agonism they stopped mentioning when dopamine became the new hot topic.

If I get the energy, maybe I’ll make a post of some supplements that may help people too.

If this was the case, simle N-acetylcysteine might be helpful.
Quite high doses manage to reduce glutamate overactivity. That’s the way it might be helpful in reducing drug craving. I can post links to this, if you were interested

OK, now I understand what you meant in your other post that atomexetine might be helpful in reduce amphetamine doses.
Yes, atomoxetin and stimulants can complement each other in their effect and together achieve greater symptom improvement than one alone.
I am sorry to hear that you have nevertheless developed a tolerance to amphetamine medication.
Perhaps it would help you to reduce the dose of Aderall at weekends and on public holidays so that your body can recover a little? 80 mg is already quite a lot anyway. +
You only shouldn’t stop taking it completely because amphetamine drugs have a steady state, i.e. they take around 3 days to build up the full effect level when metabolized normally, but still much faster than atomoxetine…

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